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Subject: Use of The Lord's Prayer in AA
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Carol User is Offline
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01/16/2008 6:39 PM Alert 

Recently, I heard someone question the use of The Lord's Prayer in AA.  I found this letter, written by Bill W. in 1959 on another site, and think it provides the answer.

April 14, 1959
Dear Russ,

Am right sorry for my delay in answering. Lois and I were a long time out of the country and this was followed by an attack of the marathon type of flu that has been around here in New York. We are okay now, however, but I did want to explain my delay.

Now about the business of adding the Lord's Prayer to each A.A. meeting.

This practice probably came from the Oxford Groups who were influential in the early days of A.A. You have probably noted in AA. Comes of Age what the connection of these people in A.A. really was. I think saying the Lord's Prayer was a custom of theirs following the close of each meeting. Therefore it quite easily got shifted into a general custom among us.

Of course there will always be those who seem to be offended by the introduction of any prayer whatever into an ordinary A.A. gathering. Also, it is sometimes complained that the Lord's Prayer is a Christian document. Nevertheless this Prayer is of such widespread use and recognition that the arguments of its Christian origin seems to be a little farfetched. It is also true that most A.A.s believe in some kind of God and that communication and strength is obtainable through His grace. Since this is the general consensus it seems only right that at least the Serenity Prayer and the Lord's Prayer be used in connection with our meetings. It does not seem necessary to defer to the feelings of our agnostic and atheist newcomers to the extent of completely hiding our light under a bushel.

However, around here, the leader of the meeting usually asks those to join him in the Lord's Prayer who feel that they would care to do so. The worst that happens to the objectors is that they have to listen to it. This is doubtless a salutary exercise in tolerance at their stage of progress.

So that's the sum of the Lord's Prayer business as I recall it. Your letter made me wonder in just what connection you raise the question.

Meanwhile, please know just how much Lois and I treasure the friendship of you both. May Providence let our paths presently cross one of these days.

Devotedly yours,
Bill Wilson

WGW/ni
Mr. Russ

 

Another reason may be related to Emmet Fox's book, The Sermon on The Mount.  Emmet Fox was widely read by early AAs -- I have no basis for this, it's just my opinion.


Be the change you wish to see in the world ...Gandhi
anniemac User is Offline
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01/17/2008 11:34 AM Alert 

"The worst that happens to the objectors is that they have to listen to it. This is doubtless a salutary exercise in tolerance at their stage of progress."

Well, I was sure one of them.  Honestly, I still don't care to hear the Lord's Prayer in AA.  Around here, we mostly say the Serenity Prayer, but now and then someone does recite the Lord's Prayer. 

I do view the prayer as a Christian prayer.  In his letter, Bill says:

It does not seem necessary to defer to the feelings of our agnostic and atheist newcomers to the extent of completely hiding our light under a bushel.

However, what about those who are not agnostic or atheist, but are not Christian? Perhaps I carry around an old chip on my shoulder in this regard, but the assumption that the whole world is Christian, or that the US is a Christian country, is bothersome to me.  I find it to be exclusionary and against the founding principles of this country.  

The God of my understanding is not "our Father", nor is it a "He" nor does it reside "in heaven".  

Thankfully, I am sober enough to not make a fuss about it, and I adopt a "when in Rome do as the Romans do" attitude.  I look for the parts of the prayer that I can relate to, and not the parts that I can't.

However, in an organization that claims that we can have our own conception of God, not just our own view of a Christian God, I just don't think the prayer belongs.  I have never heard of the Lords Prayer being recited in a Jewish temple or a Hindu mosque or any other house of worship other than Christian ones.  It is a Christian prayer.

It's not the biggest deal in the world; however, I wonder how most would feel if one of the main prayers recited in meetings was a Hebrew prayer or a Buddhist chant?  In a place of equality and inclusion, that shouldn't happen.  In my opinion, of course.

Larry User is Offline
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01/17/2008 6:13 PM Alert 

For me it is just a prayer, which happens to be part of the AA tradition. As an alcoholic I need all the help I can get. If that can come from someone elses conception of God, I'm all for it. I personaly would think nothing of it if it was considered Hindu, Jewish or any other type of prayer. To me it is irrelevant.

My religious beliefs are totally separate and have no place in AA. If someone asks me I will tell them, but they are free to choose for themselves, and I am fine with that. I will think nothing less of them.That is why this is a free country and we do have the right to make that choice. I have been around a few years and it is very rare that I see someone try to shove the christian religion down anyones throat. God is God no matter who he/she/it is.

 


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Carol User is Offline
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01/17/2008 7:07 PM Alert 

I have to admit, until I posted this, I hadn't really given it much thought.  For me, it was just something that was done at the end of the meeting, a sort of ritual, but I found it comforting.  Many times, early in sobriety, I felt the strength from others flowing into me as we were holding hands saying the Lord's Prayer.  I'm sure I would have been just as comforted if we were reciting The Serenity Prayer instead.  Not having had a religious background growing up, I was actually rather glad they chose prayers I knew (The Lord's Prayer and The Serenity Prayer), rather than having to learn something new .

There is no mandate that it must be said at the close of a meeting, or that anyone participate. I have seen people leave the meeting just before The Lord's Prayer in order to not participate, I have seen people join hands but not recite the prayer, and I have heard different versions of The Lord's Prayer being said at the same time. And I have even seen one person who said it was against his religion to recite rote prayers, that it was an insult to God to not say your own prayer.

Annie brings up an interesting point though -- I wonder if, in other countries where Christianity is not the preeminent religion, a prayer more in keeping with the beliefs of the people is used instead of The Lord's Prayer. (By the way, Annie, I am not dismissing your  point -- I can fully understand how the practice can be seen as exclusionary to some.)

Has anyone had any AA meeting experiences in other countries?  Are other prayers used?  Would or did you feel excluded?


Be the change you wish to see in the world ...Gandhi
anniemac User is Offline
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01/19/2008 3:29 PM Alert 

A woman I know on another forum lived in Israel for many years, so I posted a question there, asking her what prayers were used, if any.  She hasn't posted a response yet, but I'll post here what she says. 

 

anniemac User is Offline
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01/20/2008 9:26 AM Alert 
Posted By anniemac on 01/19/2008 3:29 PM

A woman I know on another forum lived in Israel for many years, so I posted a question there, asking her what prayers were used, if any.  She hasn't posted a response yet, but I'll post here what she says. 

 

Okay, she posted her response ~ in Jerusalem, meetings were closed with the Serenity Prayer.  She now lives in New York City and finds it so odd that the Lord's Prayer is used in meetings.

Melanie User is Offline
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01/20/2008 11:53 AM Alert 

In the meetings I attend, it's a group conscience decision on how you start and end a meeting.

9 out of the 10 meetings I go to, end with holding hands and saying the Lord's Prayer. For many of us the prayer does bring comfort and reminds us with the word's "Give us this day, our daily bread" that our program is one of daily reprieve from this disease of alcoholism.


" The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for enough good men to do nothing."
Duckling User is Offline
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01/24/2009 4:32 PM Alert 
i have one suggestion.. and that instead of daily bread we have daily cakes,,, it makes life sweeter.

other than that, yes, putting up with any prayer is practicing the tolerance i have learnt in the fellowship, and i can live with that, so long as you can tollerate me reciting it backwards in latin six times, as part of my ritual for recovery.

XD then we are all good.

What do Recovery Realm and a rubber duck have in common?
They both keep you company when you're getting clean.
Carol User is Offline
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01/24/2009 6:20 PM Alert 

Ok, Ducky, you got it!!!!


Be the change you wish to see in the world ...Gandhi
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